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> Led Lamp Power Supply+flashing Circuit
andyroo54
Posted: July 04, 2011 08:25 am
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Hi there,



I'm making a light and I need a rechargeable battery pack. Basically it will only be used for maximum four hours per day, and can be recharged at night. This is the light:

user posted image

And here is the pack panel:

user posted image


Wondering if this would be adequate?

Portable 12V li-ion Rechargeable Battery Pack 9800mAh
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Portable-12V-li...5#ht_1402wt_882

They also have lower amp,

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Portable-12V-Li...=item4cf52eeb2b




Would either of these have enough juice to run this thing for four or more hours? The back plate seems to say 120 volts which is US power but they are 12 v lights, the guy even confirmed they were. Looks like it also says 20W. Any help or suggestions appreciated, even links to other 12v power supplies.

The other thing is I need to make some kind of circuit that when the lamp has power the light flashes rather than stays constant. Now I know that flashing circuit would be fairly easy to make but I would much rather buy one ready made, do they sell these, or could I pull one out from some other kind of flashing light device? Any suggestions would be great. I could use the controller from say a LED red flashing bike light, but it will need to be able to handle the 12v and whatever the amps are, which depends on what people can tell me from the above!

Any help on this subject would be appreciated, and I hope this is the right area to post this.


Thanks for your time.
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CWB
Posted: July 04, 2011 11:28 am
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20W X 4 hours run time = 80 watt hours .

20W / 12V = 1.66A
9800 mAH = 9.8 AH
9.8 AH/1.66 A = 5.9 hours run time .

the battery in the first link would have enough capacity to do the job .
the battery in the second link does not have enough capacity .


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andyroo54
Posted: July 04, 2011 01:02 pm
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QUOTE (CWB @ July 04, 2011 11:28 am)
20W X 4 hours run time = 80 watt hours .

20W / 12V = 1.66A
9800 mAH = 9.8 AH
9.8 AH/1.66 A = 5.9 hours run time .

the battery in the first link would have enough capacity to do the job .
the battery in the second link does not have enough capacity .

Ok that's great thanks for the info, also do you have any input on a flashing circuit I could use? A ready made one, or one salvaged from some cheap electronic light or something?
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tekwiz
Posted: July 04, 2011 09:52 pm
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An electronic car signal light flasher will suit the purpose. Make sure it's an electronic one, however, as the ordinary thermal type won't work for this.


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andyroo54
Posted: July 05, 2011 06:36 am
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QUOTE (tekwiz @ July 04, 2011 09:52 pm)
An electronic car signal light flasher will suit the purpose. Make sure it's an electronic one, however, as the ordinary thermal type won't work for this.

Hi there,

The one I bought was a Desnso toyota type, with three contacts, labelled 'B' 'L' and 'E' in that order.
Says 12.8V 85c/m T/S 21Wx2+5W H/W 21WMax4Bulbs.

Is this ok? I'm trying to figure how I would wire the power and the bulb up to this configuration..
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tekwiz
Posted: July 05, 2011 06:23 pm
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QUOTE (andyroo54 @ July 04, 2011 09:36 pm)
QUOTE (tekwiz @ July 04, 2011 09:52 pm)
An electronic car signal light flasher will suit the purpose. Make sure it's an electronic one, however, as the ordinary thermal type won't work for this.

Hi there,

The one I bought was a Desnso toyota type, with three contacts, labelled 'B' 'L' and 'E' in that order.
Says 12.8V 85c/m T/S 21Wx2+5W H/W 21WMax4Bulbs.

Is this ok? I'm trying to figure how I would wire the power and the bulb up to this configuration..

I'm not familiar with those numbers. If the flasher is reasonably heavy, it's likely electronic & should work. But if it feels hollow, then it's a thermal type & won't work. However, a generic 2 terminal electronic flasher would be your best bet. These are generally sold as replacements for trailer towing, because the flash rate isn't affected by the load. These often have clear housings & you can see what looks like a relay inside.
A 2 terminal flasher just connects into the power line to the light...the power line runs through the flasher to the light.


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Trouble rather the tiger in his lair, than the sage among his books.
For to you, kings & armies are things mighty & enduring.
To him, mere toys of the moment, to be overturned at the flick of a finger.

Fortuna favet fortibus.
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peterlonz
Posted: July 07, 2011 06:49 am
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I'm interested in this thread although a late comer.
I'd guess for many applications the optimum solution would be an adjustable rate flasher.
I see that in the this application it appears a vehicle directional indicator flash does the trick, although I'd guess not low cost.
IMO most vehicle spares are expensive.
Anyway can someone be definitive about the lowest cost solution for an adjustable rate unit, capable of switching the load here. I'd guess that in many cases flashing at around 50 or 60 HZ would be used to conserve battery life without detracting much from illumination.

Peter O
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GPG
Posted: July 07, 2011 08:20 am
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QUOTE
a vehicle directional indicator flash does the trick,
The mechanical ones have a load requirement.
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andyroo54
Posted: July 12, 2011 10:17 am
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Hi so I bought this:

2 PIN FLASHER RELAY 12Volt (max 30 Amps) PRO QUIP
user posted image


But how am I supposed to wire it? I thought I could just join it into the circuit on either the positive or negative wire and it would work! It didn't, the only way I could get it to activate and click was by grounding one of the pins while it was wired into either positive or negative, either way the light still stayed constant.

Why do these things have to be grounded? And how much ground is ground? This needs to be in a portable light box, what other component can I try that doesn't need ground?

Ok forget the grounding I was just shorting the circuit.

So to get this thing to 'flash' or click on and off I can just put positive to positive and negative to negative. It works, it clicks steadily like it is working. but how can I introduce a LED light into this circuit? I just can't figure this out and I'll be it' so simple..

This post has been edited by andyroo54 on July 12, 2011 11:00 am
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andyroo54
Posted: July 12, 2011 12:05 pm
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Ok so I managed to get the LED light to "Flash" by wiring it up like this, but I'm just not sure if this is technically right? I thought Relays acted like switches? But in this way the LED light gets positive and negative contact constantly yet by adding the flasher in parallel like in my diagram it somehow drops the power in time with it's flashing. I don't get it. It's like it's sucking all the power to 'switch off' rather than switching the current off. If this is the case it's not good for a battery operated system?

user posted image

Also I bought this little remote control 12 v switch, that has + - in and +- out, when I add this into the circuit, if it is in power off mode, I can wire it in, press the remote, and the circuit will start operating, or flashing. But when I try to turn it off remotely it doesn't accept the signal. I have to disconnect the circuit, then press the remotes power button off, then if I reconnect the power the circuit will be off, which is correct, until I press the power button again, which turns the circuit on. So basically the remote function doesn't work once the circuit has been activated??? The unit is definitely not faulty, it works fine when the relay is taken from the circuit.

This post has been edited by andyroo54 on July 12, 2011 12:08 pm
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GPG
Posted: July 12, 2011 01:26 pm
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You should wire them in series.
QUOTE
The mechanical ones have a load requirement.
This may have some bearing,
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CWB
Posted: July 12, 2011 02:16 pm
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heh ... how about that ... a repetitive dead short creator . laugh.gif

as GPG said ; connect the flasher and the lamp in series .
you will have to observe the correct polarity of the led lamp assembly you are using .

electronic flashers are "polarity sensitive" ... they have (for lack of a more in depth explanation) a + and - side . many have a maximum load rating ... they are not dependent on the current draw of the load to actuate a thermal based interrupt .

that flasher uses a sort-of polarized connector (note the physical layout) that matches the vehicle connector (and thus the way in which it was wired) .
one connector on the flasher goes toward the positive (usually the lamp) .
one connector towards ground .
this is not always the case ... some vehicles switch the ground of the lamps (think geo metro here) .

in your picture , there is an "L" facing up ... this terminal should hook to the positive side (the red wire) of your led lamp assembly . the other terminal will hook to the positive side of the supply .
the remaining black wire of the led lamp assembly will hook to the negative side of the supply .

hopefully , you have not damaged the electronic flasher unit .


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GPG
Posted: July 12, 2011 02:24 pm
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QUOTE
hey are not dependent on the current draw of the load to actuate a thermal based interrupt
No, but led lights may have too high a Vf to for the blinker. It may rely on getting its ground in the time the lamp is off.
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GPG
Posted: July 12, 2011 02:28 pm
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Here's a thread using that idea. No need to have a ground.
http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.ph...37481&hl=wigwag
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CWB
Posted: July 12, 2011 03:10 pm
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good point on the Vfwd .
a "separate" flasher circuit (with it's own B+ and ground connections) driving a relay to power the led lamp would be the best solution ...
unless one can find a three terminal electronic flasher unit .

as the OP is building for a custom use , the circuitry/assembly requirements are very flexible .


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andyroo54
Posted: July 13, 2011 12:59 am
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I tried wiring it in series, as in wiring the flasher between the positive cord from power supply to the LED. This did not work? From memory it would just activate the LED light constantly and the flasher would not operate. If I put one of the flasher terminals to ground it would start to operate but the LED would go dead.

This is all so confusing, I wish there was something I could buy ready made that would suit this purpose..!
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CWB
Posted: July 13, 2011 02:01 am
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"hopefully , you have not damaged the electronic flasher unit ."

the way to eliminate this possibility is to substitute a filament type lamp in place of the led assembly .

ps ... stop shorting stuff to ground !


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andyroo54
Posted: July 13, 2011 02:43 am
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Ok will try this when I get home! Still.. even if this works it doesn't solve my LED light problem.
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CWB
Posted: July 13, 2011 12:28 pm
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"one step at a time" ... the process of elimination .


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andyroo54
Posted: August 02, 2011 09:03 am
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Hi,

So the reason these flashers weren't working is they're not drawing enough current which I think someone said. But you can buy these ultra low current flasher made specifically for LED lights. While I wait for these to arrive, I bought a roadlamp that has a flashing circuit in it.


It normally runs off 6v. Now I put my 12v battery through it and it's ok, it is flashing the full 12v fine through the circuit, but it is cutting the amps right down. Can anyone see where I might be able to short this to remove whatever is cutting the amps down?

On the left (L+) is the lead that runs to the positive side of the LED/s, and on the right of the board (L1) runs negative. The Black and Grey cords you can see run in and back to the middle where you can see the + and -.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/80/circuit1.jpg

This post has been edited by CWB on August 02, 2011 03:08 pm
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CWB
Posted: August 02, 2011 03:18 pm
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hmmm ...
i do not recommend trying to shove more current through that circuit . i does not look like it can handle it .
"cutting the amps down" ... the circuit is designed to pass only so much current . the components that do the actual work in this area have their limits .
screwing around with it will turn it into a silicon to carbon converter .
there should be a data sheet for the unit that shows the minimum and maximum working voltage and the max current capabilities .

you might be able to drive a relay with the unit and then use the dry contacts to switch the led assembly power . if you try this , you will need a "kick back" protection diode across the relay coil .
this will be polarity sensitive (again , Si to C conversion) .


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singlee
Posted: August 09, 2011 01:39 pm
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Led lihgts are really fashion now,


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