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> Lpg To Wood Gas
mravenca
  Posted: October 19, 2010 11:44 am
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Hello, I have my car upgraded to be able to run on LPG.

I read a lot about wood gas, that was used mainly in WW2 and I started thinking if it could be possible to easily upgrade the LPG car to be able to run on wood gas... I would probably need the gasifier to be on a little trailer behind the car.. It is more likely a joke, but who knows..


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Jimthecopierwrench
Posted: October 19, 2010 03:10 pm
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QUOTE
It is more likely a joke, but who knows..
Indeed. I've been intensely interested in this lately but have found readable first glance info hard to come by.

There's a yuotube vid of buddy tooling around in a 90's Honda Accord with a gassifer where the trunk space should be, and the wiki page makes it sound like gassifiers will eat anything from PVC to freshly deceased pets and puke a magically good or your engine fuel at a rate eqivalent to 1 gallon of gasoline for every 5 pounds of wood - interesting in itself considering gasoline weighs in at 10 pounds per gallon.

But as I said, haven't really run across any layman's data that points toward just how doable something like this is - for home heating even if not locomotion. By layman's data I mean the 'brick wall' specs that you're just not getting around.

The setup looks at a glance buildable with a decently equipped home metal shop and history proves automobiles can be made to move - but it's not clear exactly what a setup would weigh and the physical size required to get 50 miles of 80Km/h run time between refuelling, when refuelled how long before the trip could be resumed, etc. etc. And what problems are there with them? I find it odd that the survivalist nor the eco movement is talking about them if they're as magical as they seem to be.


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kellys_eye
Posted: October 19, 2010 03:57 pm
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Given the surplus of wood surrounding me, I'd be highly interested in any info you can drag up on it too.

Somehow I reckon the wood gas device requires 1.1 gallons of fuel to produce 1 gallon of gas....



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Jimthecopierwrench
Posted: October 19, 2010 04:46 pm
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Somehow I reckon the wood gas device requires 1.1 gallons of fuel to produce 1 gallon of gas....
There was something about that part I don't quite get. It's aparently not the same as just using the heat energy content of the fuel - such as trying to make steam with a wood fired boiler where you get so mny BTU's per mass unit. I think this is actually my third mention of the technology here - kind of been hoping for a Tim 'meat from the bones' post on the subject to see if there is anything to persue.

I'm not hoping for an urban dweller compact car commuter pump and go motor fuel replacement, but wondering more if this would be a viable pissing off into the northern bush for years with a rockwell 6x6 equipped school bus... wink.gif

I did print out this FEMA document: http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hst...ema.woodgas.pdf which looks promising.


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paulmasoner
Posted: October 19, 2010 06:00 pm
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QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 19, 2010 03:10 pm)
I find it odd that the survivalist nor the eco movement is talking about them if they're as magical as they seem to be.

i dont pay attention, but last i heard, the eco/green guys were all on the bandwagon that the worlds tree population is being destroyed by logging etc
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kellys_eye
Posted: October 19, 2010 07:08 pm
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Just had a quick scan through that pdf document (thanks for the link Jim thumbsup.gif ). It seems that 20lb of wood will produce the equivalent of 1 gallon of gas (british units) - not bad at all.

The theory and practice all seem above board - these gasifiers being in use during WW2 - and the plans included in the document are fairly simple to follow.

Now, if suitable storage could be found along similar (i.e. basic) lines then a fairly decent generator system might be available.



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tekwiz
Posted: October 19, 2010 07:35 pm
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Just about any internal combustion engine will run on wood smoke. After all, smoke is an aerosol of combustable liquids, just like what comes from a carburator.
The problem is that it's difficult to start & stop, tough to throttle, & isn't compatible with modern computerized engine control technology.
The process is best suited to a stationary engine that would run for long periods at a constant speed, or possibly with a hybrid vehicle.
One big consideration is that the entire intake path must be kept hot, to avoid wood tar condensation.
There are even turbines that run on wood.
http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/index.html

I think a hybrid car would run on leaves or waste paper, with the right setup.


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CWB
Posted: October 20, 2010 12:55 am
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hmmm ...
man , i bet that would carbon up the rings if it ran cool ! laugh.gif

i remember *something* about using coal dust ...
it was several years ago .


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MacFromOK
Posted: October 20, 2010 03:29 pm
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We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago (the topic started as LP then turned to wood gas). beer.gif

http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.php?showtopic=18418


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tekwiz
Posted: October 20, 2010 06:37 pm
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I'll bet that burning wood in a gasifier & then an IC engine would be the most efficient way of using it. Total emissions should be much lower than even the most efficient wood stoves.


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Jimthecopierwrench
Posted: October 20, 2010 07:26 pm
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QUOTE
hmmm ... man , i bet that would carbon up the rings if it ran cool !
Meh. Imagine what cornflour - or worse (well, I think laugh.gif ) black powder would leave behind. Both IIRC experimented with as IC fuels.


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tekwiz
Posted: October 20, 2010 07:29 pm
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QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 20, 2010 10:26 am)
QUOTE
hmmm ... man , i bet that would carbon up the rings if it ran cool !
Meh. Imagine what cornflour - or worse (well, I think laugh.gif ) black powder would leave behind. Both IIRC experimented with as IC fuels.

Bet that would be tough to get through a fuel injector. laugh.gif


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MacFromOK
Posted: October 20, 2010 08:17 pm
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I think the military has (had?) engines designed to run on a variety of fuels, including coal dust. The purpose was to overcome potential fuel shortages while in enemy territory. beer.gif


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Jimthecopierwrench
Posted: October 20, 2010 08:38 pm
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Wouldn't it just be easier to render the enemy into lard based diesel fuel?


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MacFromOK
Posted: October 20, 2010 09:02 pm
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Saving those for soylent green... biggrin.gif


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tekwiz
Posted: October 21, 2010 07:33 pm
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QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 20, 2010 11:38 am)
Wouldn't it just be easier to render the enemy into lard based diesel fuel?

Some enemies are too skinny. Might work if we were fighting the USA. tongue.gif


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retched
Posted: October 21, 2010 09:15 pm
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QUOTE (tekwiz @ October 21, 2010 07:33 pm)
QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 20, 2010 11:38 am)
Wouldn't it just be easier to render the enemy into lard based diesel fuel?

Some enemies are too skinny. Might work if we were fighting the USA. tongue.gif

I resemble that remark!

6'3" 138lbs of ALL MAN. That and a few grey hairs to entice respectability! wink.gif


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CWB
Posted: October 21, 2010 11:19 pm
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QUOTE (MacFromOK @ October 20, 2010 02:17 pm)
I think the military has (had?) engines designed to run on a variety of fuels, including coal dust. The purpose was to overcome potential fuel shortages while in enemy territory. beer.gif

yep ... the "multifuelers" .
there were still some of them around in 1990 .
my experience with them was memorable ... smoking , rough running , it sucked to be you if you got assigned one .
the compensation/viscosity system was not worth a damn ...
according to the mechs at the motorpools .

oddly , the germans had the same thing ... worked great .


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kellys_eye
Posted: October 21, 2010 11:31 pm
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QUOTE (CWB @ October 21, 2010 11:19 pm)
oddly , the germans had the same thing ... worked great .


and I bet the Japanese have a miniature version too.


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tekwiz
Posted: October 22, 2010 06:01 pm
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QUOTE (retched @ October 21, 2010 12:15 pm)
QUOTE (tekwiz @ October 21, 2010 07:33 pm)
QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 20, 2010 11:38 am)
Wouldn't it just be easier to render the enemy into lard based diesel fuel?

Some enemies are too skinny. Might work if we were fighting the USA. tongue.gif

I resemble that remark!

6'3" 138lbs of ALL MAN. That and a few grey hairs to entice respectability! wink.gif

And I thought I was skinny! laugh.gif
You got me beat by 25lbs, & I'm only 6' tall. blink.gif
Got a few gray hairs too, mostly at the temples & in my beard.


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Trouble rather the tiger in his lair, than the sage among his books.
For to you, kings & armies are things mighty & enduring.
To him, mere toys of the moment, to be overturned at the flick of a finger.

Fortuna favet fortibus.
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NEVjr
Posted: October 26, 2010 05:02 am
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QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 20, 2010 08:38 pm)
Wouldn't it just be easier to render the enemy into lard based diesel fuel?


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tekwiz
Posted: October 26, 2010 06:30 pm
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QUOTE (NEVjr @ October 25, 2010 08:02 pm)
QUOTE (Jimthecopierwrench @ October 20, 2010 08:38 pm)
Wouldn't it just be easier to render the enemy into lard based diesel fuel?

Now there's a concept for a scifi/horror movie.
Good thing they can't reproduce...yet. tongue.gif


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Trouble rather the tiger in his lair, than the sage among his books.
For to you, kings & armies are things mighty & enduring.
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Fortuna favet fortibus.
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MacFromOK
Posted: October 26, 2010 07:04 pm
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I'd be worried about taking a nap with one of those things around. blink.gif


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