Coin Counter Device

Hi,

I was wondering if you guys can help me out...

I'm trying to think of a way to figure out a quick and simple way to count thousands of Canadian Fundraisers coins as fast as possible. I would like some sort of Coin dispensor that adds up the total. Is it possible to make a larger high speed version of these digital coin counters where you hand feed mixed Canadian coins in some type of funneling system where the coins drop through a electronic coin comparitor/acceptor and keeps a running total of all the coins?

It doesnt need to sort change.


Basically the same idea as one of these, but you can dump hand fulls of mixed denominations.

http://a1.vox.com/6a00d09e7bc293be2b011016190589860b-320pi


On "Fareboxes" on public transit Buses, they have a similar idea. But I don't need anything that dispenses transfer or receipts, I just need a running total Dollar amount, or at least a count of each denomination and I could use a calculator.

Would something like that be possible to build?



Do you know of any websites/contacts that could lead me on the right direction?

Or, can someone offer their services to build 1.

Thanks for any info.


James.

This post has been edited by Coinage on October 15, 2009 07:17 pm

Check with your bank. Many banks & larger stores have hi-speed coin counting machines & will process charity donations for free, or for a token fee. The machines are very complex & would cost more to build than just purchasing one.

I'm starting a coin processing company. I AM that bank.

I realize what is out there for coin counting machines and coin sorters. However, I want to have built a simple electronic digital counter that can be small and mobile.

I'm just wondering if a digital counter would be possible, a machine like on Public buses. I don't need a coin holder as I would use bags, so it wouldnt need a base, just electronics.

I'm just wondering if this is possible, I don't think it would even need moving parts and spinning sorting discs like a true coin counter/sorter. I figure it just needs a coin comparitor/receiver like on arcade games or self check outs machines and a LED hooked up to see a total amount of money or denomination count.

Its gotta be possible, no?


This is how most coin counters sorters work...

(youtube clip of coin counter/sort)
Coin counter/sorter

The coin spins around and drops through a hole that it fits in and the sensor scans that coin (or movement?) and tallies up the total. But on self check outs or bus machines, I don't believe there is a spinning sorting disk, the coin is automatically scanned, I believe with some sort of Coin comparitor device.


This post has been edited by Coinage on October 15, 2009 07:33 pm

Get an industrial metal sensor (eddy current or capacitive, whichever), which will probably have a 4-20mA input. Set up the input and send it to a counter. Set up the sensor below a cardboard chute, wide enough to let through one coin at a time. Dump the coins in the top and let them slide down, single file, past the sensor. Voila.

Tim

This approach will require multiple sensors & some sort of sorting mechanism. It wouldn't make sense to count coins without knowing their values.
However, with a sorting mechanism, ordinary industrial inductive proximity sensors would do the job.
The sorting mechanism can be as simple as a vibrating bowl feeder, feeding into an inclined ramp with precisely sized drop through slots in it.

Sch3matic... thats something I'm looking for... but does it have to be so single file?

With regular coin counters/sorting machines they use a spinning disc to create that single file that youre talking about.

But, when I dump my change in the Farebox on the bus, thats not complete single file, I guess it's a controlled drop- but still... how is this possible?

I think the self check-out is a bad example, because you have to put coins in one at a time. Image doing that for $2000 in loose change?


This post has been edited by Coinage on October 15, 2009 07:43 pm

The bus fare boxes all have gravity driven sorting mechanisms, similar to those used in vending machines. The problem with those is that they can only accept so many coins at once...put too many in & the system jams.
The sorting mechanism principle I mentioned is a standard industrial method, used to sort & feed all kinds of small hardware like screws & fasteners, & present them in a row, all in exactly the same alignment. You just pour a box of fasteners into the bowl, & out comes a parfect row of them, each aligned exactly the same way. With a properly designed sorter/counter, $2000 of small change would go through it in less than 5 minutes. The whole machine would be about the size of a microwave oven stand, or small table. because this method is used so much in industry, the mechanical equipment is often available used, at very low prices.

Info: http://www.vibrotrac.com/vibratory_feeder_bowls.html

(you-tube)

Vibrating feeder bowl


That be more of a machine I would use to process BULK coins at a shop. I don't think coin counters/sorters use that type of system. Might be something new.


So the single file method is the only way it would work?

It is possible to count & value coins as they slide in a single layer down a chute, but this would require something like advanced machine vision, in order to segregate the coins by value, as there isn't much point is counting them if you don't know their values.
Far cheaper & easier to use mechanical sorting methods & electronics only to count & add the values. For portable use, I would just purchase a gravity driven coin counter mechanism for a vending machine & add counting electronics, although the vibrating bowls are not too big for portablilty.

A quick check of eBay shows a large number of coin sorting/counting devices (new) from $200 upwards. These appear to do all you're wanting except having a super-large holder for the sorted coins - something I'm sure you could jury-rig yourself.

kellys_eye, I already have one of those counters. They sort by denomination, so you have to run all the coins in the machine to sort out the $2 coins, run it again to take out the $1 coins, run it all again to take out the quarters and so on. They are good for single denominations.

I just emailed a place where they build the fareboxes on buses, lets see what they say.

multiple denomination/value/size separation and counting at a reasonable speed requires an "investment" (pun intended) .

vending machine companies (not the manufacturers of them but those that set and run routes) have to sort and tally vast quantities of mixed coinage on a daily basis . these are the people that know how the game is played and how important it is to have something that is reliable and worth having .

a good piece of equipment will pay for itself , a bad piece of equipment is a liability .

How about one of these machines but before the coin drops into the dish, it pass through an electronic coin sensor at the hole. That should work, right?




(You-Tube video)
Coin sorter

that machine is similar in design to the field portable units that the route monkeys used .

i do know that they were rather substantially built ... lots of heavy gauge stainless .
i did some electronic servicing for the company ... it was rare that i had to clean the machines for them .

There was a $10 infomercial device some time ago that was simply a stack of cylinders, each (cylinder lower than the next) had decreasing diameter holes corresponding to denomination. You throw a bucketful in and (for example) the dimes would make it through all of the holes and end up at the bottom where the quarters would stay in the top cylinder. looks like it would have worked. A nit of design thought and you should be able to fashion something similar that would work without having to shake it constantly.

With coins seperated, it should be a simple matter of weighing them and multiplying to get totals. Error rates should be negligable with handfull sized lots of coins (as a one coin error would be about .01 percent resolution at a guess) the larger the lots of course the less resolution (and higher error rate) you'll get.

With careful sensor placement, yes that device could be modified.

This is exactly what I had in mind, except that a vibratory bowl feeder would be used instead of the hand cranked feeder. This can be equipped with inductive proximity or optical sensors on each denomination slot, so the each denomination is counted individually. Heck, even hairpin switches on each slot would work.
I would want one made entirely of metal, however, as I doubt that plastic slots would last long before wearing out.

How about an impact type of sensor? Mount a piezo transducer to a metal plate. Place the plate at a 45 degree angle at the bottom of the coin chute. As the coins drop onto the plate and bounce off, each denomination should produce its own signature waveform. Add some electronics to detect and count. This system is actually used in grain loss monitors to detect the amount of grain mixed in with chaff as it's lost out the back of a combine harvester.

Or even easier to detect than a pizeo: small pushbutton and impact plate.

Tim

Now the main problems with coin comparitors/acceptors that I have gathered from different sources is that they jam up, the only way it would work is if the coins fall single file.

I took apart my coin counter which is the same model as this one...

You-Tube clip of similar Coin sorter that I have
My coin sorter


When the coin rotates around the disc the coins fall into the hole that it fits in and there is a sensor in the hole that counts the coin. Ive played around with the senors in the holes and it seems very accurate. I rapidily moved my finger in and out of the holes as fast as I can and it seems to track every movement... also, It doesnt seem to get confused when I stick 4 fingers in 4 different denomination holes as fast as I can, it still keeps up. I'm assuming this sensor technology is cheap and available, since it is just tracking movement, not coin size or material.



Now, what I want to do is, get these sensors and a read out display connected to tubes that would be connected to that Klopp coin counter, since it sorts each denomination.



Do, you know where I can get these sensors and a digital number count display?

Secretly I'm hoping my counter breaks down, so I can rip it apart and use the sensors.

Proximity sensors & digital counter modules are standard industrial equipment, & are available from any industrial control company. They are also available on eBay. Inductive proximity sensors are less than $20 each, & the counter module is around $20-$50. Both are designed for easy use by semi-technical people. You will also need a suitable enclosure & power supply to run them. Most industrial stuff will run from 12VDC. If you know anyone who works in a manufacturing facility, they may be able to get you the sensors for nothing, as most factories buy them by the dozen.

For non-contact detection of metallic targets

Some coins are magnetic and some are not. Pre 1981 Pennies for example are 98% copper. I don't know if that would affect coin sensing ability.


With my coin counter, it tracked any movement, even my finger. What type of sensor does that? When the sensor is in a tube, you don't really have to worry about other objects going by it, other than coins... so it doesnt matter if the sensor senses coins or marbles, what ever comes down the tube, thats what it counts.

Apologies for the side track, OP

That's such a cool idea. For sure, it would could work if you single-filed the coins to stream onto the plate, but then you might as well sort them while you're at it. But with enough processing speed, who knows how far that could go. One day a machine might be able to identify the impact of 12 coins hitting at the same time, based on some higher math and resonance theory... but by then it'll probably be easier to incorporate high-speed video/audio analysis to make a robot "rainman."

As for weighing your coinage, that might work great in some countries, but Canada's money doesn't seem to be ideal.
http://www.coinscan.com/technical/canasp.html

I would be willing to pay someone to build these tube sensors with the LED read out. I don't need these things on a commercial scale, just 1 unit, possibly another 1 in the future.

I was wanting 6 tubes (each coin), with a small motion sensor in each one with wires about 5 - 8 inches between each tube and extra wire for the LED so I can figure out how I need to mount everything.

I will have a delivery system for the coins, I'll probally use that "Klopp" coin sorter, so the coins will have some control. Each denomination will go into its own tube.


I live in Vancouver Canada.

You can email me at: j-presley@hotmail.com


Thanks,

James.

This post has been edited by Coinage on October 17, 2009 11:32 pm