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> PCB - Where do you get them?
ghimpe--
Posted: September 18, 2006 04:15 pm
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You're welcomed. GooD LucK! thumbsup.gif


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The Lover1
Posted: September 21, 2006 09:12 pm
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Hi
i'm a new member in this forum
i can say it's fantastic forum
the first thing i read is this topic
it's amazing method to make good PCB
i was have problem to make my own PCB now i can do it easy with this method
i'll try and if i have any problem i'll told you
thanks
bye
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Skeith
Posted: September 24, 2006 01:30 am
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QUOTE (alirezan @ Sep 17 2006, 01:40 PM)
That's exactly what I did. I soaked it for about 5 minutes and the paper came off and the tracks were just fine. After I etched it, many tracks were missing sad.gif

Could be your etchant. I find that the pre mixed crap from stores are a bit too strong. I have ferric chloride with hydrochloric acid mixtue. I find it eats the toner and ink off the PCB almost 50 - 70% faster than deluted ferric chloride that I used before. Next time Im going to buy a bulk jug of ferric chloride and delute it. 50/50 Ferric chloride to water is a good ratio give or take.


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The Lover1
  Posted: October 01, 2006 10:06 pm
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here video file from http://thomaspfeifer.net/ which explain the process of Create PCBs with the "direct toner method"
i have upload the file on rapidshare
here's the link
http://rapidshare.de/files/35148204/Platin..._20min.rar.html
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JoOngle
Posted: October 02, 2006 04:59 am
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Those of you who are not successful in completing the
transfer most likely didnt pre-heat your copper clad boards!

Remember to PRE-heat the copper before you quickly
put the transfer paper onto it, beware not to "jitter/shake"
or move it...otherwise you'll get lots of duplicate prints wink.gif

Also beware of burning yourself on the copper, it
gets VERY hot and holds the heat well for a long time.



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ChasfrmOK
Posted: December 05, 2006 08:49 am
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Well it’s funny I never hear CIRCAD mentioned in this group. CIRCAD http://www.holophase.com has been around a long time (it’s still kinda DOS’ey) but the free demo is almost as functional as the full version and it’s doesn’t expire like a lot of these Circuit Cad programs their so proud of. Granted it’s not perfect but it’ll take you from a schematic to a PC board printable on your printer. What do you expect for free. It comes with some basic schematic libraries as well as footprint libraries. Building a component is not difficult to store in your own library file. I don’t think there’s any pin limitations either. You can print out with a lot of flexibility, reverse, mirror, x and y limits ect. Select lays, lots of color coded layers too. There’s at least one user group on the net; http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CIRCAD/
I’ve researched a bunch of user groups and all these CAD programs have shortcomings that keep me, as a serious hobbyist from moving away from CIRCAD (I'm keeping a open mind). I run my transparency film through my Canon i850 twice (monochrome) and I have plenty of UV blocking for photoresists. Once in a while it mis-registers and I have to rerun it. I use the sunlight if it’s daytime, I use a retired 175 watt mercury vapor lamp/fixture mounted in a cabinet, at night or cloudy days. I get good looking boards (my opinion) for a reasonable cost. I get single sided 12” x 12”, FR4 material laminated with dry resist that develops in Sodium Bicarb, at Farr circuits http://www.farcircuits.net/supplies.htm for about $8.50 ea plus shipping. Double sided is not that much more. I usually order 3 or so when I order. Do the math. I usually don’t make anything over a 4”x6” board and that will cut out to 6 ea. 4”x6” boards (approx $1.50 ea). Much of my newer projects are SMT so there’s a lot of circuitry you can pack on a board that size. Go ahead and use your laser transfer stuff and all the other concoctions but this stuff will definitely produce a better board under rather uncomplicated circumstances. Using the ferric chloride is probably the most nasty part of the process but it's managable. If your new to this stuff, there’ll be a learning curve but it’ll be worth it. ‘Course if your only gonna make a couple small boards in your life then stick with laser transfer.
Just my opinion….

Fritz
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teaman
Posted: December 06, 2006 05:27 am
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The laser printer idea sounds really good, I must say I haven't tried it myself. Just a note though, in general you should not put glossy paper in laser printers as it may catch on fire, or at the very least, could ruin your printer as the gloss will melt and stick to the insides. Ofcourse, it depends on the paper you use too
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Sashi
Posted: January 31, 2007 07:23 am
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I just found a place to get bulk small PCB's

http://www.elexp.com/pro_7bs1.htm


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3v0
Posted: February 01, 2007 01:38 pm
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I could not find where anyone had posted about this (I searched).

There is a nice ditty on using the coated paper The 15 Minute PCB

The process uses TRF or toner reactive foil. It is a sheet you place over the PCB after the toner is applied. The toner seals and stablizes the toner.

Then instead of etching in at tank you wipe the copper off the board with an etchant soaked sponge. My first board with this method follows.

user posted image

A larger image.

I opted to go with a laminator instead of the clothes iron. The cost for the paper and foil is about 3 cents (US) a square inch. Maybe 5 if you count waste.

In the past I have done toner transfer, this makes it nearly fool proof. Takes out a lot of the guess work.

There are 4 lines in the image above, they are .01, .012, .016, and .024. There are two places where I routed lines between chip pads. They say you can get 2 lines between pads with this method but I was not that brave.

The board was laid out with Eagle. To get the foil pattern I selected the top, pad, and vias layer. If you look close at the largest image of the board you will see that the lines are very clean up/down and left/right. The angled lines actualy show the jaggies from the layout program.

3v0
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3v0
Posted: February 01, 2007 01:43 pm
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The Pulsar site also has instructions on how to correctly set the temperature on a clothes iron to transfer the toner. It is HERE

The site also has a process where you use the toner transfer to make decals. Uses the same paper as the PCB transfer but is different from there.

3v0
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pentagon
Posted: April 16, 2007 11:14 pm
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Does anyone know where I can find Positive Photo-Sensitive PCB's online? I've looked almost everywhere and have had no luck.

Thanks!

EDIT: I live in the US

This post has been edited by pentagon on April 17, 2007 06:38 pm
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Roccivic
Posted: April 17, 2007 11:10 am
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Mentioning where you live could help.

in Ireland: www.radionics.ie
Worldwide: www.farnell.com

Peace, Rouslan
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Banshee
Posted: October 11, 2007 05:37 am
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Hey guy,
i found a site once shown a Torn apart printer that allowed you to print directly on the PCB what do you guys think of that idea? the pics the guy have showed a good result i just think it would be a bit much to modify the printer for it... also does anyone know where the get Blank Copper clad PCBs in bulk fairly cheap? thanks

-Banshee


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Roccivic
Posted: October 11, 2007 10:54 am
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QUOTE (Banshee @ October 11, 2007 05:37 am)
Hey guy,
            i found a site once shown a Torn apart printer that allowed you to print directly on the PCB what do you guys think of that idea? the pics the guy have showed a good result i just think it would be a bit much to modify the printer for it... also does anyone know where the get Blank Copper clad PCBs in bulk fairly cheap? thanks

-Banshee

JoOngle had a thread some time ago about a flat bed plotter he uses to print directly on the PCBs and it looked awesome, look it up thumbsup.gif

Peace, Rouslan
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Banshee
Posted: October 11, 2007 08:10 pm
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Wow... that is an awsome printer. good job JoOngle

-Banshee


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Banshee
Posted: October 12, 2007 03:43 pm
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QUOTE (maggiewong @ September 25, 2006 03:40 am)
Hi

If anybody here need PCB? our company can offer  We are strong in PCB,  We specialize in single-side, double-side, 4 layers to 8 layers at very competitive prices and excellent quality. Our lead time is only 7 to 10 days.  Do you need pls? Can you give me a chance to quote? Tks.

Please send mails to mail address :blah-blah-blah@we-don-t-care.com.cn

Not trying to be a tadel-tale pre say, but i remember reading No Advertizing and just wanted to point this out to Spaminator Task Force.


-Banshee

[EDIT: removed email address]

This post has been edited by Roccivic on October 12, 2007 04:30 pm


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Roccivic
Posted: October 12, 2007 04:31 pm
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QUOTE (Banshee @ October 12, 2007 03:43 pm)
QUOTE (maggiewong @ September 25, 2006 03:40 am)
Hi

If anybody here need PCB? our company can offer  We are strong in PCB,  We specialize in single-side, double-side, 4 layers to 8 layers at very competitive prices and excellent quality. Our lead time is only 7 to 10 days.   Do you need pls? Can you give me a chance to quote? Tks.

Please send mails to mail address :blah-blah-blah@we-don-t-care.com.cn

Not trying to be a tadel-tale pre say, but i remember reading No Advertizing and just wanted to point this out to Spaminator Task Force.


-Banshee

[EDIT: removed email address]

Cheers buddy, dunno how we missed it, it's sorted now anyways wink.gif

Peace, Rouslan thumbsup.gif
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Banshee
Posted: October 12, 2007 05:36 pm
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ok, good. I'm glad i could help. I wasn't sure if there were conditions or certain forums where it's allowed i thaught i'd point it out.


-Banshee


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Village Idiot
Posted: October 14, 2007 06:36 am
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Here's a couple of tips from my experimenting with the toner transfer method.

1. The best paper I've found so far is Hewlett Packard semi-gloss ink jet photo paper, product code Q2509AC. It only needs to soak for 20 minutes or less in warm water, and the paper comes away in one piece leaving only the toner on the PCB. It just falls away, all by itself. No rubbing required, and absolutely no remnants of paper fiber sticking to the PCB. I've also tried the Pulsar brand paper, and although it's faster, it's also a lot more expensive. I've also had some other problems with the Pulsar stuff (see note 2.)

2. If you haven't bought a laser printer yet, then you want to make sure that the one you get has a straight through paper path. In other words, the paper feeds in on one side of the printer, and comes out the other with very little bending. Usually, this means that you need to use the manual paper feed slot, or the manual exit tray, which is no big deal. I foolishly bought an HP 3055 which doesn't have this feature and the paper bends around a very sharp angle. Toner doesn't stick all that well to the glossy or semi-gloss paper, and I've had problems with one of the paper handling rollers picking up toner off the paper and redistributing it where it shouldn't go. I've found that the Pulsar paper is the worst for this problem. If you encounter this problem, and your artwork isn't very large, you can move it horizontally so that it's away from the roller. Also, keep the artwork at the very top of the page. It appears that as the paper passes over the roller, it transfers heat to it and it will be cooler at the top of the sheet, and hence, less likely to mess with the toner.

Has anyone else had this problem with toner being messed up in the printer?

There appears to be a tradeoff between how well the toner sticks to the paper when it's going through the printer, and how easily the paper comes away from the PCB when doing the water soak. The HP stuff obviously has a coating of some kind (it may or may not be clay) which dissolves in water and helps release the toner. Maybe there's a matte finish paper which would work better. Unfortunately, the matte finish photo papers that I've tried don't want to let go of the PCB without a lot of rubbing, and this results in poorer resolution and generally poorer results.

This post has been edited by Village Idiot on October 14, 2007 06:40 am
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andersod2
Posted: December 29, 2007 01:01 pm
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This is a really great forum for this topic guys. I'm really glad I found it. Shout out to JoOngle for his super-detailed step-by-step which is the best description I've seen on the net so far, though rayder's link to the engadget site was great with the pictures.
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SB0202022
Posted: March 08, 2008 04:31 am
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I just go online and order the PCB's myself,use a schematic designer and PCB program and just order it. smile.gif


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HighFrequency
Posted: March 26, 2008 09:13 pm
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So where does one dispose of one's etchant solution after it's been used?
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phoebus16
Posted: March 26, 2008 09:41 pm
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QUOTE (HighFrequency @ March 26, 2008 11:13 pm)
So where does one dispose of one's etchant solution after it's been used?

A solution can make several pcbs depending on its volume, after its use I personally dump it in a sewer near my place. (I use a bucket to transfer it there)


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VoidImpulse
Posted: June 11, 2008 01:00 pm
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any alternative for laser printers?
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michelst
Posted: June 17, 2008 05:06 pm
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I was reading about a Techniks Press-n-Peel PnP-BLUE Printed Circuit Board Transfer Film for Laser Printers and Photocopiers. There is 2 types, one peel off and one soak in water.

Is any body had a experience with this type of paper ?

Michel St-Louis
Montreal, Canada


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