And So Cars Hate Me., another lovely break down.

My car this time.

Was driving it home Wednesday, and noticed my alternator wasn't keeping up with the vehicles demands. I looked under the hood and the accessory side of the motor was just soaked with coolant.

Parked it for the night and car pooled with my co-worker today. After work, started er up and checked under the hood. Fresh coolant was spraying off of the belt. Decided the check the oil and
just stood there in amazement for a couple seconds.

The oil is thin, and level about 3 inches above the full line on the dipstick. leaking coolant into the oil..... I immediately killed the engine.

Could be the head gasket, could be the timing chain cover. Though there were no symptoms beforehand. This just reared its head all of a sudden.

My low coolant light came on a couple weeks ago (I have had a small very slow external leak for over a year that would require me to add maybe 3quarts to top up the reservoir every 3 -4 months.
I know there was a leak because there was evidence of evaporated coolant near the water pump, though just splatters, nothing severely wet and no puddles under the car. (you might recall my thread about this way back). I never could find the leak because it was extremely intermittent so I just left it.

I'm thinking this kick to the face is the result of that leak that just suddenly failed catastrophically.
Not sure what it is, not sure if its worth repairing. Gonna tow it to the shop monday and have them do a leak down test to find the source and then quote me on repairs.

I doubt the block is cracked from freezing as the coolant was liquid when I started it this afternoon, and it sat all night in -27C without being plugged in and then sat all day. If it were frozen I doubt I would have gotten splashed in the face with liquid coolant when I started it. That and the coolant in the oil was also liquid and no signs of frost or freezing on the dipstick or under the valve cover (looked through the oil cap).

It also started fine (sluggish cause it sat all night) but started fine and purred like a kitten. I doubt it would run that great if the head gasket failed, and I see no sign of coolant being burned in combustion. and the engine has NEVER overheated.

urg.... I hate winter

DOH!

What kind of car/engine?

1993 Chevy lumina, 3.1L MPFI V6 FWD.

car has 222800Km on it engine (it was a swap if anyone remembers) is probably sitting at 340000Km.
Other than this bloody problem it still runs and drives great.


EDIT:
LIM gasket was replaced over a year ago. Here was the thread on that repair
http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.ph...50&#entry326050

I lived 1-1/2 years in Winterpeg and my dad had NOTHING but engine probs like this in both our Jeep CJ-10 and Toyota Corolla.

The whole time previous and since in BC, nary a problem.

That place just hates engines!

Could also be the intake (if it's aluminum) or its gasket. With that much volume, if it were a head/head gasket, you would've probably had a full cylinder that would prevent starting (or enough to do damage if it did).

I hope not, I changed the LIM gasket.
Yes it is aluminum.

My only reasons for speculating its the head or the timing chain cover is because of the location of most of the coolant. It is wettest near the front of the motor, on the corner of the front head and just behind the timing chain cover. The timing chain cover houses the water pump and has coolant channels running through it to feed from the block. If a leak were to develop there, an external leak would be very possible, along with coolant getting into the timing chain cavity and into the oil.

I was gonna say,if it's a GM of that family,intake gasket issues.
You DID use the upgraded gaskets,right? (I'm not sure if the 3.1 had the same plastic gaskets that I just went through the fun of replacing on the 3.8) Get the metal ones!

Also,Again not sure on that engine,but check the intake manifold,if it has a plastic one.Some of them had EGR/Coolant flowing through plastic parts (BRILLIANT!) and,as you may have guessed,they melt and fail.

the plastic gasket was replaced with a fel pro gasket, It was a metal replacement.

Pure speculation here but can aluminium heads take a rapid temperature change from -27C to +85C in such a short time without warping? Especially if the block is iron, the thermal expansion differences could certainly cause a seal to leak.

The exact same scenario in the hydraulic pumps of Boeing 737's caused "rudder hardovers"

I was wondering about the thermal expansion thing myself. The 3.1 is part of the gm 60° v6 family. If I recall correctly they are all iron block. The FWD engines having aluminum heads. Does the FWD 3.1 have the same setup as the iron headed version where the LIM forms part of the mating surface for the valve cover gasket?

yes it does, in fact the engines with the iron heads are the same as the alum heads. Just different materials.

If you go up the page to the 3rd post, click on my link to my old thread about the LIM gasket change I did over a year ago. go to page 2 and near the end I posted photos of the LIM removed.

Haha, sorry somehow I missed that link before. Reading comprehension fail

Anyways, was it just the rtv failing around the gasket? Was rtv bead along the timing cover in decent shape?

What type of sealer was used for the gasket? I like permatex myself since its more forgiving than RTV if you happen to bump it around.

In any case, a leak down will tell you if it is the head gasket around the cylinders. If the leak down for the cylinders says the gasket is fine I would suspect the front most port on the LIM or like you said the timing chain cover. Musing aloud, I wonder if it would be possible to find the coolant leak by removing the thermostat and lower radiator hose, and plugging them off with two rubber stoppers. Drill a hole in one and blow a couple psi into it and listen for leaks.

So I broke down and financed a truck

$14k later

And CBC will report that household debt has risen once again

PICS!!!

heh ... yeah , sometimes it just gets to be like kicking a dead horse .

by the time you figure out how much it will cost to get the thing running again , coupled with how many miles are on the rest of the rig and the possibilities of failure of *something* else ...
replacement seems to be a wiser choice .

besides , it gives you something new to grumble and curse about/over .

Like this ?????

Every one needs something new to grumble about...

Right now mine is the Guy who's Doing the body work on my Renault 2.5... Been 3 weeks and all he's done is washed the Crap off the engine bay and put body putty (Bondo?) on some panels.. Now i'm there every second day to Dbl check progress... Almost ready to hand it over to 'His competition' across the road...

pretty much like that ...
trade off one set of problems for another .

sort of like getting a new girlfriend .

Congrats on the new ride.

Did ya ever locate the leak?

Funny thing is,... that was the topic on "the bottom line" last night.

I will get some pics on the weekend when it warms up a bit. Been -40 wind chills all week here

In the mean time.

Its a 2009 Chevrolet Silverado extended cab.
Silver grey in colour
4.3L V6 vortec engine.
75,000 Km
spray in bed liner.
Box rim lining (spray on)
After marked sliding window on back of cab.
runnin boards
Spray on undercoating
trailer package.
After market stereo system with bluetooth.
remote start.
(none of these accessories were even listed online on the dealerships ad)

Truck is in immaculate condition. The previous owner took really good care of it.
Looks almost brand new.

Gotta install the CB in er now.

Naw, didnt even bother.
It was time to retire the car. Motor has 350,000Km on it
rear brakes and shocks need to be done.
wheel bearing on its way out.
rocker panels have very large rust contamination.
it was just going to turn into a money pit very shortly.

Got 2 1/2 years out of it, very little repair cost in that time so I cant complain.

Bugger still started though, parked it wednesday and it sat in the fridgid cold until sunday. Started er up to put er in the garage to remove my stereo, CB, antennas etc in the warmth. Didnt want to start, took two tries, but it still started.

good thing you got rid of it ...
the 3.1L used in the buicks of the same vintage had a habit of developing skirt slap rapidly once they wore beyond a certain point .
some would go from a light tick-tick-tick (that quieted down as the engine warmed up , it would make you think a slightly mushy lifter) to clunk-clunk-clunk in a matter of a hundred miles or so .
you would swear that it was a connecting rod letting go !

Heh, the car could have been on its way to the one in the thread with the pics of half the engine parts resting in the crankcase oil pan

I have heard of the piston slap. though i thought that was more pertaining to the 3100 and 3400 SFI engines not the MPFI blocks. Could be wrong though.

My motor had lifter noise when cold for the longest time, actually noticed it the first winter i drove it, ticked quite a bit, but once it warmed up slightly and the oil started to flow it quieted right down. Tick was quite loud, could hear it in the cab. (with the radio off) though it never got any worse, or louder.

Gonna be a hell of a time trying to get the frozen beast started this evening to move it for the two truck on sunday.

grab a chain and pull it with your new truck ?

I would, but don't have any chain or tow ropes yet. on the list of things to buy
Plus the street is a sheer sheet of ice so I doubt I would get enough traction.

Got er started anyway, battery was dead, heh hooked it up with booster cables for 10 min, and she started. sluggish as hell. and wanted to stall when I was moving it, but it started.